Bike Sense
Bike Sense: the podcast of The BC Cycling Coalition.
Join Host Peter Ladner as he interviews guests to talk about all things related to cycling advocacy, education, and road safety in BC. Listen to stories that can influence changes that make active transportation and mobility safer, more equitable, and more accessible, so we can meet our climate, health, social justice, tourism and economic development goals.
Please visit our website at bccycling.ca to find out more about what the BC Cycling Coalition is doing and how you can join and support us.
Bike Sense
The Trail Builder's Playbook: Allan Kindrat's Guide to Making Paths Possible
Transportation Engineer Allan Kindrat's groundbreaking work on the Cycle 16 multi-use path connecting Smithers and Telkwa recently earned a Gold Award from the Planning Institute of BC, recognizing two decades of persistent community advocacy finally bearing fruit.
The project represents a watershed moment for active transportation in BC. What began as a grassroots initiative championed by the Cycle 16 Trail Society has evolved into something much bigger – the first major project taken over by the Ministry of Transportation and Transit under their new Active Transportation Capital Program. With $85 million allocated across approximately 11 projects province-wide, this represents an unprecedented commitment to building dedicated cycling and pedestrian infrastructure within highway corridors. This ministerial involvement sets a promising precedent for similar initiatives across BC, including the Connect the Coast Society's efforts on the Sunshine Coast, where Kindrat now serves as project manager. Get your how-to's here!
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Find out more about Cycle 16 (Smithers to Telkwa) HERE
Find out more about Sunshine Coast: Connect the Coast Trail HERE
Visit Allan Kindrat HERE
Learn about B.C. Active Transportation Infrastructure Grants (and find out which projects have received them) HERE
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The Bike Sense podcast with Peter Ladner is produced by the BC Cycling Coalition – your voice for safer and more accessible cycling and active transportation in British Columbia.
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Welcome to Bike Sense, the BC Cycling Coalition's podcast, where we talk about all things related to active transportation advocacy in BC. I'm your host, peter Ladner, chair of the Board of the BC Cycling Coalition. I hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 1:As we all know, the expansion of active transportation depends heavily on safe infrastructure, and outside the denser urban areas of our province that usually means multi-use paths on longer routes that serve local commuters, recreation and, with luck, tourists. Many of them are on Ministry of Transportation and Transit rights of way. Some of them are on old rail beds, and building such routes, as we've covered on this podcast, requires First Nations buy-in, usually millions of dollars of provincial and regional funding, years of work, community advocacy, political will, but all eventually require a project manager who can actually build them. Alan Kindred is such a person. He's a senior transportation engineer at WSP Canada and he lives with his family an extended family in Smithers where he stick-handled the construction of Cycle 16 route to Telqua, and we're going to ask him about that and other projects he's working on and just how to get these things done. Welcome, alan.
Speaker 2:Thanks, Peter. I'm excited to be here to chat with you about all the exciting work happening in the province right now.
Speaker 1:Well, I know your recent excitement was you just won an award for your work in Smithers. Can you tell us about?
Speaker 2:that, yeah, we worked with the Regional District of Bulkley-Nachako, who is the regional district in our area, is the regional district in our area connecting the communities of Smithers and Telqua, on a application for the award earlier this year and just last month we were down in Vancouver to receive the award. It was a gold award for excellence in planning practice in small and rural areas and Cycle 16, the regional district and WSP received the award. So it was really exciting to see the work that we've done being recognized by the Planning Institute of BC.
Speaker 1:What was special about that work, besides the fact that it actually got done?
Speaker 2:Well, there are a lot of things about Cycle 16 that are special. It spans three local governments, so the town of Smithers, the regional district of Bulkley-Nachako and the village of Telqua. So it took a lot of coordination and it was a project that was championed by a nonprofit cycle 16 trail society. Um, really, for for over 20 years, from the time it was conceived, uh, as an idea to to when the first phase of the project was built. So it, uh it did not happen overnight, but it has been extremely successful. It's been really kind of the honor of my lifetime to be a part of the project.
Speaker 1:Describe what's happening there right now. We're recording this right after Canada Day. Were you out there on Canada Day? Were there lots of people out there? How is it working?
Speaker 2:Were you out there on Canada Day? Were there? Lots of people out there. How is it working? Yeah, maybe I'll back up just a moment and give a bit of an overview of Cycle 16, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:The project was led by the Trail Society for a number of years. The project was originally planned to be three phases, which were all within the regional district of Bulkley-Nachako's municipal boundaries, but as the project evolved over time it became a five-phase project because the town of Smithers needed to incorporate a connecting trail to it, and likewise for the village of Telqua. In 2020, the first phase of the cycle 16 project was funded and in 2023 construction on that was complete. And that was a pretty pivotal moment for the project because it was no longer just an idea. It was something tangible that people could actually go out and ride.
Speaker 2:Just last month, the next phase of the project was opened to the public and that's the Town of Smithers piece. So we've now got two operational phases of the five-phase project and last year the Ministry of Transportation actually took over the project. So it was a project that was being led by Cycle 16, with the regional district and other local governments agreeing to own and operate the pieces within their municipal boundaries. But last year the ministry announced a new funding program, the BC Active Transportation Capital Program, and they selected Cycle 16 as one of their projects that would be funded under this program.
Speaker 1:Alan, I just want to get clear. This sounds like a pretty big breakthrough for the ministry. Can you tell us how much of a precedent this sets and how that is being seen in other places?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the Ministry of Transportation and Transit's Active Transportation Capital Program that was announced last year, to my understanding, is the first of its kind, not only in BC but also nationwide. I was at the Transportation Association of Canada's conference last fall, and there was a lot of interest from transportation ministries in other provinces in what BC is doing here, and so I believe that they're viewed as a national leader in active transportation capital projects. So not only is the province building and expanding their highway network, but they're now committing substantial money to building out active transportation corridors in their highway rights-of-way.
Speaker 1:Does that mean new highway projects will automatically have multi-use paths or corridors involved in that project, or does that mean taking existing highways and adding multi-use paths?
Speaker 2:It won't mean automatically that new highways get multi-use paths, but I believe that there has been a policy within the ministry for a number of years now that any major highway expansion looks closely at including active transportation elements. But the capital program is specifically for active transportation projects within their highway corridor and so they are standalone projects, such as the Cycle 16 project, and they're not necessarily just multi-use paths. They can be protected bike lanes, they can be other forms of active transportation infrastructure, but multi-use paths are what we're seeing most commonly, connecting communities.
Speaker 1:So if other communities are planning on doing something like this, is this where they should eventually aim to have the ministry take over these projects.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a very interesting question. Working closely with Cycle 16 over the years, we all believed that this was something that should be the Ministry of Transportation and Transit's responsibility. The multi-use path is within the highway corridor and it is a form of transportation, and so we really viewed that ministry as being ultimately responsible for it. But it's not something that the ministry had done before.
Speaker 1:So this was the first time the ministry had taken ownership of one of these projects.
Speaker 2:To my understanding, yes, the capital program is funding active transportation projects in their highway corridor for the first time as major works projects.
Speaker 1:Can you say anything about what it took to bring the ministry into the picture? I know that they've been spending a lot of money on active transportation projects in different ways, but if this is a new way, was there something about this project that attracted them? Is it something that you and the advocates on the ground had to do to bring them in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Cycle 16 Trail Society and WSP, as their project manager, worked closely with the ministry for a number of years leading up to the construction of the first phase. Because the project is in their right of way, they have final say on the design and whether or not to permit the trail in their right of way. Originally, the plan was to have the trail constructed and the regional district would have a license of occupation to operate the trail within the highway right-of-way, and so it took very close coordination with the ministry to ensure that the project could be approved and constructed and ultimately operated in their right of way. Now, one thing that we've been very fortunate about in Smithers is having the support of the local ministry district. They have been absolutely fantastic to work with. They are local cyclists and advocates themselves, and so having the support from the local ministry district was a really big deal for the project when the ministry announced the funding for the capital program last year it was $9.3 million for the remaining phases of cycle 16.
Speaker 2:$6.3 million for the remaining phases of cycle 16. I believe they announced $85 million total spread across about 11 projects in the province.
Speaker 1:You were saying, when they announced it, that signaled the final stage of funding it and readiness to finish it?
Speaker 2:That's right. So prior to them announcing the funding, we were working closely with the regional district, the town and Cycle 16 to apply for grants to fund the construction of the remaining phases. We had a lot of momentum with the project, but we really were at a point where we're just waiting for the right grant to move forward with the next phase. And with the ministry announcing the funding, it's now taken all of the uncertainty away from ensuring that the project gets complete, because the funding is in place now and we're working through the final stages of design on the remaining phases. Phase three of the Cycle 16 Trail was actually put out to tender a little over a month ago and has now been awarded to a local contractor, and construction will begin later this month.
Speaker 1:We hear this a lot, that the involvement of the ministry depends quite heavily on the local ministry manager, and would you say that that's something that communities have to accept or work with? If they have a manager, for example, who's not as supportive, are projects like these even likely or possible?
Speaker 2:It's a great question. I would like to believe that they're still possible, but you certainly have more of an uphill battle if you don't have the buy-in from your local ministry district. They are key to any development within the highway right-of-way, which many of these projects rely upon heavily.
Speaker 1:So there's no overriding policy that's coming down from the top in the ministry that requires all these district managers to be on side with projects like these.
Speaker 2:Not that I'm aware of. This is a very new thing for the ministry, for them to be taking over these projects and leading them, and so I think that they're still working out what those policies are in terms of operations and maintenance of active transportation infrastructure in their highway right-of-way, how they manage the maintenance of these new trails right-of-way how they manage the maintenance of these new trails.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm pretty excited about this because I know from my experience in the city of Vancouver, when the city engineers first figured out how to build a bike route, it took a lot of engineering, back and forth and figuring, and once they got it, then the next bike routes were way easier. Would you say that would be the case in this example, that once they figured out this right-of-way active transportation corridor, then the next ones will be easier?
Speaker 2:I believe so. Yeah, and I think Cycle 16 and other projects in the province have began to set a bit of a precedence, and it's exciting to see that the ministry has taken this one over, because it gives hope to many other projects throughout the province that are in similar situations.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about one of those projects, because I know you've been hired by the Connect the Coast Society on the Sunshine Coast. What are you working on there and what is your role and how's it going?
Speaker 2:My role on that project is similar to my role was on Cycle 16. I've been hired as their project manager to help liaise with local governments and ministry agencies with local governments and ministry agencies and they've also hired us to do the conceptual design for their priority segment, which is from the edge of the town of Gibsons to Lower Road. It's approximately three kilometers and the first section of that is within the town of Gibsons and the final two segments are within the Sunshine Coast Regional District. So it has a lot of similarities to the Cycle 16 project, where it's spanning multiple local governments and the infrastructure is within the highway, right-of-way. And so right now we're developing the conceptual design to help prove the feasibility of the project, and we also have a significant component in stakeholder engagement, and so we were actually down in Gibsons in February, meeting with the local governments as well as many of the elected officials to discuss the project, to get input and feedback on our design and to strategize how best to move the project forward.
Speaker 1:Now the three kilometers. Is that towards the ferry at Langdale or in some other direction? It's actually towards Sechelt. Oh, okay, going the other way, Right, yeah, and what are your challenges? Progress reports on that one.
Speaker 2:Well, the Highway 101 corridor is extremely challenging along the Sunshine Coast is extremely challenging. Along the Sunshine Coast it's generally pretty narrow and there are a lot of utilities and properties and topographical constraints, drainages that make designing a multi-use path within the Highway Right-of-Way very challenging and expensive.
Speaker 1:How about raising the money? You mentioned that you were hired by the local society, so the local advocates had to come up with the money to pay you.
Speaker 2:That's right. Yeah, so they rely heavily on grants as did Cycle 16, to fund these early phases of the project, and what their role is is really championing the project and helping prove out the feasibility of it and developing a social license for the project. The ultimate goal is that they can take the project to a stage where local governments are fully in support of it and see the value that the project will offer to the community and eventually take it over. On that note, there's kind of two different paths that the project could take. Path one would be the local governments choose to own and operate the trail. They would also be responsible for funding the construction of it. And path two would be that the Ministry of Transportation and Transit would take it over, which is what happened with the Cycle 16 project. So the Connect the Coast Society is pursuing both paths and working towards trying to to find an owner for it.
Speaker 1:Alan, it sounds like you are technically an engineer. I mean, you are an engineer, but your job involves a certain amount of if I can call it politics, of bringing people together and coming to consensus on roots funding and all of that stuff. Is that a big part of what you're doing?
Speaker 2:It's funny, I don't think of it as politics, but there is certainly an element of that. Certainly, we do a lot of stakeholder engagement, and so building those relationships is key. Yeah, I bring a few elements, I guess, to the project. I'm a professional project manager so I have good experience on what it takes to deliver projects, but I also have a lot of experience in stakeholder engagement and helping build support for the project. And then I've also got the technical experience of a transportation engineer, so I understand a lot of the technical challenges that go along with projects like this.
Speaker 1:I imagine understanding the technical challenges would be pretty darn important, because it's easy to say, oh, we should just put a route along here, without realizing we've got to cross all these intersections and drainages and sewer pipes, whatever. Realizing you've got to cross all these intersections and drainages and sewer pipes, whatever. The one in Smithers, the Cycle 16 project, you said, took 20 years but it culminated in a breakthrough funding initiative and responsibility by the Ministry of Transportation and Transit. Do other advocates have to expect to wait 20 years for their projects to come to fruition, or do you think?
Speaker 2:we're now on a much faster track because of some of this recent work that you've been involved with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do think that some of the groundwork that has been done on projects like Cycle 16 will help us move more quickly on some of these projects, and I do think that the province itself is in a different place today than it was 20 years ago when it comes to prioritizing active transportation and capital projects, and so and I think we're in an exciting place where we're seeing a lot more funding being allocated to these types of projects.
Speaker 2:With that said, it certainly does take a lot of effort to get these projects to the point where local governments or the ministry are willing to take them over, and having an organization, or multiple organizations, champion a project is really important. That was certainly the key to success for Cycle 16. I think it's the only reason the Sunshine Coast project is making progress as well, because the Connect the Coast Society is championing the project. Hopefully, one day we're in a place where that's not necessary, where boards of volunteers don't have to dedicate their time to ensure that these important projects get built, but that certainly is a key piece of the projects in today's environment.
Speaker 1:Well, we're working hard through the BC Cycling Coalition and this podcast to help these advocates learn how to do it. But I certainly appreciate your point that it does seem a bit weird. You don't hear local advocates having to get together and raise funding for the consultation on building a highway interchange, for example. It just gets done Now with the ministry getting involved. How are they measuring success? What is their desired outcome? And is there data being collected, say on the Cycle 16 path, to prove that money was well spent?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've got eco-counters, which are bi-directional pedestrian cyclist counters, installed on each phase of the project so that we can collect data on the usage, and so that is something that the province is collecting on all their projects to show what the return on investment was for the total capital investment versus the total usage in the end. So far, cycle 16 has been getting a lot of use, which is really exciting to see. We've got a local bakery at the end of phase one, and so every Saturday they've got a what they call a bikery event. Um, and we see upwards of 350 pedestrians and cyclists commuting out to the, to the bikery every Saturday Wonderful.
Speaker 1:You got, you said you. You told me you had two, two kids, two sons, five and seven. That's right. Have you been to the bikery? I have, yeah, and what's it like? What's the feeling out there? You must feel pretty good about this coming to fruition because of you, and here you are with your friends and relatives.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. I just yeah. I feel very fortunate to have been a part of this project and to see it contribute to our community and to see my kids use it and hopefully, one day, their kids. I never expected to design these types of projects for a living. It really was the Cycle 16 project and the opportunity that was given to me that put my career on a path of almost exclusively designing these projects, so it's really neat. I feel quite fortunate for it.
Speaker 1:Are there other people in your organization and around the province who have this expertise and are also getting involved in this? Because the way you've described it, it would sound like fingers crossed. This is a growing employment opportunity, let's say, and opportunity for companies like yours.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, we've got a growing team of transportation engineers that are designing trails like this throughout the province. Wsp has a very large landscape architecture team and transportation planning team and so they contribute important components to to projects like this and they work a lot with local governments on active transportation network plans and, yeah, it's an exciting space.
Speaker 1:Before we let you go. Are there people in Smithers, where you're most which is what you're most familiar with who you wouldn't have thought would care or be involved with this, who have find themselves now supporting it, now that it's there, and they've experienced how, let's say wonderful it is.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. So before the first phase of cycle 16 was constructed there was certainly some opposition to the project Maybe not a good use of taxpayer dollars or expectations that it wouldn't get a whole lot of use. And that piece of trail has been in operation for two years now and we see a ton of use on the trail and a lot of people commute to town and they're driving by the first phase of cycle 16 and seeing their friends or their grandkids biking on the trail. And it certainly has flipped the perception and support stage because people can see it getting used and can see it acting as a safe means of transportation for many, which riding on the highway shoulder was pretty scary and continues to be scary for a lot of people, and so seeing a separated bike path where kids and families can ride is pretty special.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Do you have any other advice for other organizations that might be interested in this kind of project things?
Speaker 2:they should get ready before they even call someone like you yeah, um, in my experience there's more support in communities for projects like this than most people realize, and so it's drumming up that support and building a social license for the project, and that does take a lot of effort, but it is a key step in advancing a project. And so if you have a project in your community that would help improve the community, then you need to work with some of the local organizations and build support for it. There's a lot of grant funding out there to help advance projects like this. Grants from where. There are grants that the province has through the BC Active Transportation Program program. They offer, I believe, $50,000 per year for active transportation network plans and up to $500,000 for capital projects. There are federal grants and then there's lots of local organizations that grant money to projects like this.
Speaker 1:So, alan, will we see you at the Regional Active Transportation Conference in Kimberley September 10th to 12th. So, alan, will we see you at the regional active transportation conference in kimberly september 10th to 12th yes absolutely.
Speaker 1:I'm looking forward to it. Fantastic, so people who come to that conference will have a chance to ask you more questions about these projects and, uh, hopefully advance them in their own communities. Thank you so much for your advice and we look forward to following your progress on connect the coast and wherever else you might be lending your talents. Thanks, alan, thanks peter. You've been listening to bike sense, an original podcast from the bc cycling coalition. If you like the podcast, we'd be grateful if you could leave us a rating. On whatever platform you use, you can also subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. If you have comments or suggestions for future episodes, email me at peterladner at bccyclingca. Peterladner at bccyclingca. You can help us amplify BC Cycling Coalition's voice by simply becoming a free member at bccyclingca. Thank you.