Bike Sense
Bike Sense: the podcast of The BC Cycling Coalition.
Join Host Peter Ladner as he interviews guests to talk about all things related to cycling advocacy, education, and road safety in BC. Listen to stories that can influence changes that make active transportation and mobility safer, more equitable, and more accessible, so we can meet our climate, health, social justice, tourism and economic development goals.
Please visit our website at bccycling.ca to find out more about what the BC Cycling Coalition is doing and how you can join and support us.
Bike Sense
How cycling advocate Eleanor McMahon changed laws to save lives
What does it take to transform personal tragedy into meaningful policy change? Eleanor McMahon's story provides a masterclass in effective advocacy that transcends political divisions while saving lives on our roads.
After losing her husband Greg — an Ontario Provincial Police officer — to a careless driver in 2006, McMahon channeled her grief into founding the Share the Road Cycling Coalition. With her background working for two Prime Ministers and her extensive political connections, she embarked on a methodical journey to research international cycling advocacy models before creating an organization to fill the gaps she discovered in Ontario. The results have been life changing and life saving, and carry huge ramifications for cycling safety in BC.
Visit Share the Road Cycling Coalition HERE
***********************************************
The Bike Sense podcast with Peter Ladner is produced by the BC Cycling Coalition – your voice for safer and more accessible cycling and active transportation in British Columbia.
Got feedback or ideas for future episodes? Please drop us an email at admin@bccycling.ca.
Membership in the BCCC is now FREE! The future of this podcast depends on people like you becoming members at BCCycling.ca.
Welcome to Bike Sense, the BC Cycling Coalition's podcast, where we talk about all things related to active transportation advocacy in BC. I'm your host, peter Ladner, chair of the Board of the BC Cycling Coalition. I hope you enjoy the show. Today we're moving out of BC on this podcast for the first time to welcome Eleanor McMahon, a powerhouse lobbyist for safer cycling in Ontario, canada and indeed the world. She's a former press secretary to Jean Chrétien, she's a former Ontario Minister of Tourism, culture and Sport, she's a former CEO of the TransCanada Trail and today she is the chair of the board of an organization she founded which interests us the most, which is the Share the Road Cycling Coalition in Ontario. Welcome, eleanor.
Speaker 2:Hi, peter, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Perhaps you could just share with our listeners the reasons why you have found yourself to be a cycling advocate in the first place.
Speaker 2:I've ridden my bike most of my life and I grew up the youngest of seven children in a family in Windsor, Ontario, and back then, certainly in those days, we walked everywhere, took the bus, rode our bikes everywhere, and bikes were freedom, just like today. And my parents certainly only had one car so I wasn't getting a ride anywhere. So, hoof it, take the bus, get a ride with someone or, gosh, take your bike were our choices of transportation. We were multimodal back then, just like most people are today. So, as someone who loved to ride her bike and and you know, it was a bit of a lifelong passion and someone who did triathlons later in life, the sad part of this story is that my late husband, with whom I used to enjoy riding a lot we lived in a part of Ontario because he was an Ontario provincial police officer that was fairly remote and very rural and so we could go on a three-hour and not see a car, Uh and um.
Speaker 2:When he got transferred to the greater Toronto area in Burlington, where I live now, um, it was much more congested, obviously much higher dense, densely populated. We'd both lived in the Toronto area previously. So in fact, Greg and I met when he when he was, uh, uh, on on duty in the Toronto area, and so we, we were ready for that. But, honestly, uh, cycling in in a much more densely populated, higher traffic volume area was something that it took some getting used to. And, uh, Greg was often saying to me you know, make sure you're safe. Um, we, when we went on rides together, even though he was much more powerful than me, he would ride behind me to make sure that I was okay. So, obviously, being a police officer, he had a lot of concerns about safety and wanting to make sure that we were both safe.
Speaker 2:And sadly, that didn't help him because on June, the 6th 2006, he went out for a training ride on his bike. We were training for a triathlon that we'd entered, which is something we love to do, just not seriously. We weren't Olympic athletes or anything, but it was something we loved staying fit and swimming and running and cycling. And Greg had just bought a new bike. It was the month of June, as I mentioned, He'd just got his tax return refund from the government and went out and bought a bike. He was ready to get a new one and very excited, so he took that money that was burning a hole in his pocket and off he went to this great store and bought a bike and the last words I said were I love you and I'll talk to you later. And he was hit by a careless driver just north of our home here in Burlington while on his training ride and he died in hospital later that night.
Speaker 1:I'm so sorry to hear, Eleanor. I know that triggered you to start the Share the Road Cycling Coalition. What is the Share the Road Cycling Coalition?
Speaker 2:If I may, it is a good question because after Greg was killed, I I decided that I um as I um grieved for him, um, and I do come from a very large family of seven kids and um fairly wide network, and so many people said you know, how can we help? And I got lots of calls from politicians because, as you pointed out, in my early career I worked for two prime ministers and so I had a pretty vast political network. And the premier of Ontario called me I knew him, I still know him, dalton McGinty and asked what could he do. And I said I need you to stay in touch with me because I don't know what it is, but we're going to do something because Greg's death was so tragic and preventable and silly really. So all of it's so silly and preventable and you know, this was someone who I never thought would die, would have his life taken doing something he loved. He was in a very risky profession for which he was highly trained and I never worried about him. Risky profession for which he was highly trained and I never worried about him. But somehow there he was enjoying his training ride and overtaken carelessly by a motorist who had several convictions for driving under suspension. We'll get to that later.
Speaker 2:But as I began to cope with Greg's death, I started you know I mentioned I got several phone calls from people who wanted to help. But I also started to really think what could we do? And started to do some research, peter, about what existed, and then I realized there really wasn't any cycling advocacy organization in Ontario that did the kind of work that I thought needed doing. But before I did anything I needed to do more research. So I traveled internationally. I spent some time in the United States. I started looking at jurisdictions that had the kind of legislative constructs that we desperately needed in Ontario and really started to learn a lot. Went to Europe my city, burlington, is twinned with Appledorn in Holland. We all know that the Netherlands is really so advanced in terms of cycling, and so I started spending time in Europe and developed a network of colleagues at the European Cyclist Federation in the UK and mainland Europe France, germany, italy, netherlands and really started talking to as many people as I could about how do you do things where you live and started to learn about all of these programs. And then I spent some time here in Ontario as well and talked to Canadians. I did travel to BC, met with folks at the BC Cycling Coalition and had a chat with them and, of course, velo Quebec our dear friends in Quebec and started to really talk to people here in Ontario.
Speaker 2:And the reason I did that, peter, was because I wanted to make sure that if we started something, we were really doing it as a result of what was needed and filling gaps, and it was more research. So I was invited to give talks and I would go to talk to city council and do deputations. I would speak to cycling advocates and I traveled around Ontario and I learned about what we had at the time and really what we didn't. And so I asked people if we build this, will you come? Will you support it financially? Will you? Because, on a practical level, as you know, non-for-profits need funding and what kind of organization should it be and what do you think we should be addressing as a priority?
Speaker 2:And then was getting very encouraged by what I saw, which was a huge hole. As someone who'd spent most of her life either in political work or in non-for-profit advocacy work, I realized that a lot of what was needed at the community level were savvy advocates. A lot of the people that were in communities were lovely and very passionate, but didn't know what I knew. Didn't know how to influence better outcomes, how to work with politicians or how to build community, and so that was one of the big areas of focus that we had and we still have, which is building a better advocacy community and equipping advocates with the tools to be successful.
Speaker 1:Can you give me an example of how that would work, and let's pick one community that needed a lift.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, I'm thinking of Halliburton, which is a rural community in the Muskoka area. They'll kill me for saying that because they're not Muskoka. They're adjacent to Muskoka.
Speaker 1:Our listeners won't know the difference. It's okay.
Speaker 2:They had a really great group of advocates there. I was invited by a woman who'd heard about me and wanted me to give a talk, and she worked in public health there, and so I went up and I this again. They said would you come? We have this evening open. We'd love you to come. So I came.
Speaker 2:I spent the after the talk, we had a social time and I talked to everybody in the room. Peter and I asked them what do you do? So what would you like to see? And, just really good thing, I'm so outgoing. I talked to as many people as I could about. So how do things work here? Tell me, did you know that this is happening elsewhere in the province, which was another really interesting opportunity for us.
Speaker 2:It was quite clear that municipalities weren't aware that there was progress in other places and there were things going on, and that was a big disconnect. But really, at the advocacy level, just understanding how people were trying to influence outcomes and not being successful and I could see them getting. They're hitting their heads against the wall and getting frustrated, and human behavior dictates that when you get frustrated, we're not at our best. I can say that I'm not perfect. I get frustrated all the time, and when I get frustrated, I get crabby, and when I get crabby, I don't really show up as my best self, and I don't mean to make fun or make light of these issues, because our safety on the road is deadly serious. And what I saw, though, were a bunch of people who had been frustrated over the years and not able to make the change that they wanted to see, and so meeting with them really and talking to them about how to be effective led to some more formalization a lobby day at our legislature and all party cycling caucus, which we can talk about, an advocacy toolkit that we developed online for people to share to really help them to be more effective, and some webinars on training advocates to really teach them about.
Speaker 2:You know, as I often say, you know, I remember this one woman who was lovely, and her partner joined her, and the two of them were quite, quite frustrated, and he said to me oh, I'm just so mad, you know, I can't, we can't get anywhere, it's so frustrating. I said, well, tell me, what have you done? Whoa, we, we went to this thing and we did, and they were really not setting themselves up for success. So I said. You know, as human beings it's normally an okay to get frustrated, but you know you don't like it when people punch you in the nose and poke you in the eyes. So politicians don't like that either.
Speaker 2:And your job is to make friends with as many people as you can and bring as many people along as you can, because there's a lot of joy in cycling. So your joy you're, you're. You are the ambassador of joy. So your job is to get people on side as quickly and as often as possible, and it's going to take a while, but trust me, it's worth it.
Speaker 2:I did the same thing with a fellow in Sault Ste Marie who, years later, after the mayor, said to me oh, we can't deal with that fellow, he's so angry all the time. And I met the mayor at the Association of Municipalities of Ontario meeting and he said we can't. His name is Andre. He won't mind me talking about this lovely guy. He came up to me years later and said you know what? Your advice to me was a game changer. I said really? He said yeah, you just told me to be fair and friendly and be nice to people and show up and have all my facts and try to make friends. And boy, did it ever change him? He said cause I'm a Francophone and I'm feisty and I'm an emotional person. And I got mad and I said all those things are okay, but save those for your friends and family or your pals over a beer. When you're in public and you're talking about cycling, don't forget that you're competing against a lot of really professionally, highly trained lobbyists and other people who want exactly what you want, and so the best thing that you can do is be fair and friendly and say hello and can we talk and then just carry on as you would in any professional setting. So those are some examples of some of the work that we did.
Speaker 2:And then again, as I said, we began to realize that this was a big area of business for us and we began to raise funding to do these on a project basis and we started training advocates en masse. And whenever I went to a municipality, I would meet with the council and meet with the councillors, and most municipalities in Ontario anyway have a bicycle advisory committee of some sort, and I was on the bicycle advisory committee in my own community because I wanted to see how it worked, and I would meet with as many people as possible. So when I went to a city I would give a talk usually, and then spend the rest of my time talking to decision makers, influencers. I'd shop, I'd go to the bike shop and talk to people there and really start to spread the word organically about our organization.
Speaker 2:And again, as many times as we could, ask people their opinion how are we doing? What should we be doing that we're not doing. And then, peter, once I spent some time continuing to talk to people, we realized that there was room for an organization, and so we incorporated and, as a non-for-profit organization, appointed a board of directors and then started grant writing and hiring staff and building a good strategic plan, which each non-for-profit should do. Everybody knows that. And so we got some funding to do a really robust strategic plan and talked to as many people as we could again about where they wanted to see us in five years and then got to work at the Ontario Legislature, meeting with politicians and with bureaucrats and talking to them about what we needed to see.
Speaker 1:So run me through some of your. You've had some remarkable successes. Can you just give us a quick thumbnail of some of the things that you implemented through this organization?
Speaker 2:So the first piece of legislation that we passed was in Greg's memory. I went to the commissioner of the OPP, the Ontario Provincial Police, and I asked him if he would help me to lobby for a change in the Highway Traffic Act to deal with people the fellow that killed my husband. So he had five convictions for driving under suspension, four convictions for driving without a license, $15,000 in unpaid fines and two months after he killed my husband, he hit someone else and he was a commercial driver. Months after he killed my husband, he hit someone else and he was a commercial driver. So you can imagine, especially as the spouse of a police officer. Cops are notorious for coming home from shift and saying, oh my gosh, and telling you how was your day, how was your day, that's what, that's what. That's what spouses do. And, um, I would hear the frustration in Greg's voice. He was a kind and lovely man, but he would get frustrated at his own inability to deal with the lack of safety that he saw on the road. And that spirit and that dedication and that determination was something that I carried with me, and so when I started doing research on legislation in other provinces, I realized that Alberta and Saskatchewan had legislation that dealt with people who habitually drive under suspension, and people who habitually drive under suspension have a propensity to take risks, and so I was fairly certain that those are the type of people that probably cyclists need to be concerned about. Those are the type of people that probably cyclists need to be concerned about.
Speaker 2:And so, again, I went to the commissioner and I laid out a business case for changing the legislation, after doing all my research, and I said we have the busiest roads in the country. We don't have this legislation. Alberta and Saskatchewan have it. We need to have it. Here's what I'd like to do. Would you help me? And he said, yes, I will absolutely help you. And I said, okay, I will absolutely help you. And I said, okay, I'll do the politics and the media, you do the public service. And he said, okay, you're on.
Speaker 2:And so, less than a year later, we had Greg's law, which heightened the penalties for people who drive habitually under suspension, three quarters of whom are driving still, which is really not great, because if you get hit by someone who's under suspension, they don of whom are driving still, which is really not great, because if you get hit by someone who's under suspension, they don't have insurance. Now, it may be different where you are because you have a different regime of insurance, but in Ontario, if you're under suspension, you're not insured, and if you hit someone, that just adds to the tragedy. So that's the first law that we did. So Greg's law was passed and it went into effect in 2009. And that was our first piece of legislation, so that that this, this, led to bigger and better things, but that was the first thing we did.
Speaker 1:We left off. You were talking about Greg's law and what it would do. What are some of the other successes that Share the Road Cycling Coalition has had?
Speaker 2:In 2009, we started the Ontario Bike Summit, and this was because we realized that municipalities weren't sharing best practices about cycling and there was no forum to do that or mechanism to do it, so we decided to create one.
Speaker 2:We also wanted a forum for political conversations and advocacy and to allow advocates the opportunity to learn from each other and municipalities to learn from each other and to invite municipal, federal sorry, provincial ministers to come and join us and to hear what was going on, because nothing was happening provincially.
Speaker 2:And in parallel, we were lobbying at Queen's Park and starting to make traction with some of the public policy work that we needed. But the Ontario Bike Summit was important for one other reason as I had started to work and lobby at the provincial level, I realized that there was no cycling strategy in Ontario and I knew that there was no way that the officials were going to do that. And, to be fair, when Bob Ray was briefly premier in Ontario, there was a cycling strategy, but that had been 20 years prior and there had been nothing done since. And I knew that if we were going to get that done, we had to do it ourselves. And I knew that if we were going to get that done. We had to do it ourselves. So I raised some money and I hired a pollster and we started doing extensive research and we reached out to as many people who would talk to us law enforcement municipalities we went to AMO, they gave us their list and so we did a big survey.
Speaker 1:What is AMO?
Speaker 2:The Association of Municipalities of Ontario. I think you probably have a similar construct, Peter, having been a municipal politician yourself.
Speaker 1:UBC, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so we went to AMO and we said would you allow us to do a survey of your members? And they said yes. So we took all that survey data and we wrote a fairly extensive report when Ontario Bikes, ontario Benefits. And that public policy document, which called for extensive changes across an array of ministries in the Ontario government, laid the groundwork for the first Ontario cycling strategy in Ontario four years later. So after we wrote that report which I wrote in BC, by the way, during the Vancouver Olympics in 2010, I stayed with my friend in Vancouver and I wrote that report, I took all the research and data and I pulled it together. And then I walked into the office of the Minister of Transportation who was later the Premier, kathleen Wynne, and I said here is a comprehensive look at cycling from people that you care about Police, law enforcement, municipalities, public health, cycling advocates and citizens across Ontario. Here's what they want their Ontario government to do, and you're not doing it and you need to do it. And here it is, here it is, you don't have to do another thing. And she said right.
Speaker 2:I came down from that meeting and on my way down, the Deputy Minister of Transportation was in the elevator by happenstance, and he said so I hear we're doing an Ontario cycling strategy. I said, well, good news travels fast. The minister had already, in the time that it took me to get to the elevator, actioned into the deputy that we were going to be embracing an opportunity to do a cycling strategy in Ontario, with any inherent tourism benefits, by the way. So we didn't forget about the economic economic side of cycling which, as you know, peter, is so important. That was another success. We laid the groundwork for a cycling strategy and at the ontario bike summit we amalgamated everyone and said we're going to do this, this strategy, and we want your help.
Speaker 2:And then, a number of months later, less than a year, we did a press conference, conference in Ontario and Toronto and we released the results and we showed everyone this is what Ontario needs and this is what they don't have. And the government sent an MPP to comment favorably on the with the media there, glenn Murray, who was later my colleague in cabinet, to comment very positively. He was Toronto Centre, so the largest number of cyclists in the country, aside from Vancouver and Montreal, live in Toronto and so Glenn, being a cyclist himself, said, yeah, I'm in. So that started some really great momentum provincially for us. And then, three years later, we had the first Ontario Cycling Strategy. But there's a story there too. But I'm going to let you ask me another question. So that was another early win. That was another early win.
Speaker 1:Could you briefly describe the impact of the cycling strategy? What difference did it make having that strategy versus not having it?
Speaker 2:Game-changing. I mean it started to really demonstrate the opportunities inherent in the provincial government playing a much greater role. It also showed them that people that they cared about cared about it. Not just cycling, not just cyclists, as if we didn't matter. We do.
Speaker 2:But I went to people that they listened to municipal leaders, law enforcement, public health, law enforcement, public health. When you had those people saying it and you start to build civic society around your argument, you can't you know, politicians can't say no to that. So we put together a report that was based on feedback and interventions from those people that government cared about. And that's how we got their attention and they started working right away to build some capacity within the army. Because I was, I was meeting with mto, I was meeting with the ministry of transportation, I was getting nowhere, um, and I actually had and and they're not bad people, they just they just needed someone to nudge them along, peter, and that's what we did well, you're painting a picture that there's all the support for cycling from the municipalities, the health authorities, and we all know that and have heard that, but and imagine that sometimes in our mind to be more than it is.
Speaker 1:And yet today in ontario, um, that doesn't seem to be calling the shots in from the provincial government. They seem to have turned on cyclists. How are you responding to that and how is that affecting these initiatives?
Speaker 2:When we launched the first Ontario Cycling Strategy in 2013 and then I was invited to join the government in 2014,. Our work really escalated from there, because then I got into cabinet shortly after that and the Premier invited me to do much more change, which we did. We started to operationalize the ontario cycling strategy and really, really drive it home and and address the things that were called for, and we held ourselves to account. Based on that that feedback that we'd have from citizens, people said this is what we want you to do, and we started doing it and which were?
Speaker 1:what were those?
Speaker 2:things, um, invest in infrastructure, pass more changes to the highway traffic act, including a one meter safe passing law, which ont. Ontario was the second province in Canada to do and really start to hone in on the economic impacts of cycling tourism and embrace that which we did and which, as when I was tourism minister, I did the first Ontario cycling tourism strategy in the history of the province, and the Ontario cycling route, which is now almost finished. The province and the Ontario cycling route, which is now almost finished. So so, yes, the current government has taken a step back. However, governments don't last forever. I think they're making a huge mistake. They know that. But we are working quietly and behind the scenes to mobilize, to make our voices heard in a in in the kind of behind the scenes, to mobilize, to make our voices heard in the kind of behind the scenes way.
Speaker 2:We are an organization that works proactively and productively with government and we made sure, peter, that cycling remains nonpartisan. If we take a partisan approach, then we're no better than the people we point fingers at and say don't make cycling partisan. People's lives should never be a political argument. Don't politicize cycling for your own benefit. And so we shouldn't either. And so we work across party lines with everybody in the legislature and, yes, there are members of the government caucus who have quietly said to me I don't support what the premier is doing. And so we have friends on all sides of the legislature and we're mobilizing and the mayors. We just had our Ontario Bike Summit. A panel of mayors said resoundingly that the best thing that the government can do for us is more cycling infrastructure funding. So we're clear on what our lobbying strategy is, because our stakeholders and partners have told us what it needs to be.
Speaker 2:But the fact is that we have a majority government in Ontario right now. We have a premier who has a decidedly 1950s view of the municipalities and he's fighting old battles when he was a councillor at the City of Toronto when his brother was mayor and he's also got a very, I suspect, peter. He politicizes things because that's who he is and he's got a very antiquated sense of who cyclists are and what they are. He's decided that cyclists are Birkenstock-wearing, cappuccino-sipping liberals and NDPers and those people don't vote for him anyway. So it's our job to mobilize civil society and say wait a second, that's not right.
Speaker 2:And our public polling, peter which we do because polling influences outcomes tell us that 87% of Ontarians are cyclists and motorists at the same time. So it's a false paradigm to enter into this you versus me thing because it doesn't exist. So we call BS on that every chance we get, peter, because it's simply not the case that it's you versus me. And people who create that false paradigm and that construct aren't interested in solving problems. Well, it's the government's job to solve problems. That's why they're there. And so you know, I think there's some. We're making some some, you know, behind the scenes headway and we're continuing to keep cycling alive in a very positive way, because governments don't last forever.
Speaker 1:What is the role of the all party cycling caucus that you have in Ontario?
Speaker 2:It's a great question. So it is a common ground forum is a place where people from all sides of the legislature it's co-chaired, by the way, by Mike Schreiner, who's the leader of the Green Party in Ontario, and Mary Margaret McMahon no relation a Liberal MPP in Toronto and who's a cyclist, and both of them are and we have chosen an NDP member, catherine McKinney, who's also a member of our caucus, and we are working very hard to get someone from the government caucus Again. We know that we have people within caucus that are sympathetic, and so it's like I say about everything Peter, the train's leaving the station. If you're not on it, you can always join us later on. It's okay.
Speaker 2:You know it's okay when you see us having fun without you, then you can join, because we're meeting over the summer with the members of the caucus and we're devising our legislative strategy for the fall. So we've got some private members bills that we're'm bringing that back to Ontario because we need to have a nonpartisan forum to really have a fact-based, evidence-based conversation that's non-political, and our conversations are all about finding common ground, peter and fact-based, by the way, and evidence-based, not political. There's no room for politics. It gets checked at the door.
Speaker 1:Okay, I have a question for you about evidence. You brought in a one meter safe passing distance. We now have that in BC one meter when you're traveling under 50K, and 1.5 meters, which people are always surprised when I tell them that's the width of a queen-size mattress. Have you got any evidence that that has made a difference and how are you getting that enforced?
Speaker 2:Evidence? I don't know, I'd have to ask my friends in law enforcement about that. Second, as officers in places like Toronto will tell you, it's just helpful to have the charge on the books, and if someone is careless or is aggressive towards a cyclist, then the charge is there for them to leverage. Right If it wasn't there. I mean if it wasn't there. And it's also a great forum for awareness. So you mentioned the mattress thing. We just had the commissioner of the OPP. We just launched an awareness campaign featuring the commissioner of the OPP, who's a huge cyclist, and I called him and said would you help us do this? And he said yes, and so the one meter safe passing law is front and center. The campaign is about the one meter law and it's about reminding motorists that they need to give cyclists space, and sharing the road is not just a fun idea In Ontario, it's the law, and so we just launched that a month ago fantastic.
Speaker 1:something else that your organization does that fascinates me and we did actually a whole podcast about this, but I'd love your update on it is bike friendly communities, and I know that your summit in part is a way to announce the latest winners and who's gold, silver and and whatever and can you tell us how that works and how effective that's been? And also I want to know what it would take for us to get it here in BC.
Speaker 2:It's a fairly resource-heavy and intensive research-heavy exercise. We brought the Bike Friendly Program from the US in 2010. We helped to launch it in Quebec with fellow Quebec. A number of years later, we launched it at again the AMO conference, the Association of Municipalities of Ontario. I invited my friend who'd been the mayor of Madison, wisconsin, dave Cheslevich. I invited a mayor to speak to mayors.
Speaker 2:So don't listen to me. Here's a guy who said stood in the room and said I was elected three times on a cycling agenda. They were like what Politicians' ears perked up? How did that happen? Well, here's what I did and this is how he did it. And like the lineup to talk to him was out the door because politicians were making assumptions.
Speaker 2:No one wants cycling. 87% of people in this province are multimodal. Don't let the false arguments and false paradigms rule your world. It's bunk. It's not true. Don't create a construct to serve your political ends.
Speaker 2:So the bike-friendly program has been a game changer for us, the biggest thing I think it does well, there are three things it does. Number one it measures progress and honors municipalities in a really positive way. We need more positive in cycling, peter. I'm really keen on this. We just need more opportunity to embrace. Peter. I'm really keen on this. We just need more opportunity to embrace progress. Better is always possible. The standard of perfection that we set ourselves sometimes and I've seen advocates do this a lot and it kind of makes my hair stand on end Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. When there's progress, salute it every single time, because progress begets progress. If people are doing things well, tell them thank you. It's just human behavior. And what the Bike Friendly Program does is it really helps municipalities have a different and very positive conversation about cycling versus. Oh my gosh, we really suck, we're terrible. Well, actually, you're not. You're doing a lot of really good things.
Speaker 2:So it works on the basis of an application. It's very extensive, um, and we we help municipalities through it. We have a panel of expert judges who are planners, engineers, city builders, urbanists. I'm on the panel. I'm not sure how I fall into that. I'm not an engineer or planner, um, I just care about this stuff and we adjudicate. There's also a section of the application excuse me that is highly weighted towards municipal feedback.
Speaker 2:So it's a really great way for municipalities to hear from their citizens about how they're actually doing, and it's not for us, as judges, to come in and say we're having this conversation with the city of Windsor right now, by the way, because we just had the summit there and always an outcome of our summit is a revisiting of their bicycle-friendly community designation, and there's a desire to do that.
Speaker 2:Cities are hungry for how to be better, how to do it differently, how other municipalities are doing it, and a platform that allows them to share that information is exactly what the bike friendly program does, and it really does reward success, and if you're not quite there, it says, okay, you're doing great, but really, if you want to progress, here are five things that you should do immediately. Here are five that maybe you want to address in the medium term and in the longer. You have to demonstrate progress towards implementation of a cycling network and a bicycle master plan, for example, an AT master plan that's a vibrant part of your transportation master plan. This is how it works in Ontario anyway.
Speaker 1:How do you deal with communities that are very small and maybe don't have even a traffic planner or transportation planner? Because I noticed that in qualifying for this, you have to get a group of people together in your municipality, you have to include the politicians and the engineers and so on, and if they're very thinly resourced, how do they deal with it?
Speaker 2:I've actually never had a problem with that. I mean, even in small communities you can still manage to pull together one or two staff from the city Sometimes it's the CAO, sometimes it's that you can pull in public health, because in Ontario anyway, public health is a regional responsibility. In Ontario anyway, public health is a regional responsibility and they have, especially in large catchment areas, you know, public health staff and adjoining municipalities, even if you don't have one in your municipality. So it's, it's really you need a champion in this in the community.
Speaker 1:Is that a requirement that public health has to be involved?
Speaker 2:No, but it's helpful.
Speaker 1:But they're useful allies, of course.
Speaker 2:It's really useful allies and, again, they are the evidence-based people who say, well, we do lots of campaigns for anti-obesity and quit smoking and better heart and all these things, and cycling is really connected to all those things and, by the way, when you do it, you should really be safe. So, by the way, get going on implementing better infrastructure and, oh, by the way, get the tourism people involved too, because we know that cycling tourism is hugely beneficial to communities and there's lots of data we've done and others have done that looks at measuring the impact of cycling from a tourism perspective. So it's really about finding allies where you can and even small municipalities can pull together. You know folks who are interested and the other thing is that we match them up with other municipalities who've been successful.
Speaker 2:As I mentioned Windsor, we're going to do a workshop in the fall for the Go for Silver workshop in Windsor.
Speaker 2:That will bring together all the usual suspects city staff, advocates, politicians again public health all the law enforcement, city staff, advocates, politicians again public health all the law enforcement everybody into a room to have a conversation about where do we see Windsor in five years. And then we're bringing into that forum probably the city of Ottawa or one of our gold bicycle friendly communities to really give them a picture, because I think most people are visual, peter, and if you can tell them where they want to get to and then give them some idea on what the route looks like and how to get there, I think there's a lot of gratitude for that, because everybody wants to be in a constant improvement mode. Most people do, and if you tell them, you know, in five years, this is where, this is where you want to be, maybe and we can help you by introducing you to municipalities who are there already and they can tell you what's possible and how to do it. Can I give you another example that's not bike-friendly related?
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:When I was in government, I learned that New Brunswick was trying to pass a one-meter safe passing law because they'd had the death of a high profile cyclist who was a professional cyclist, and she died, sadly, in the same way that Greg did. Someone pulled up to pass her and on a one lane road, and that's what happened with Greg. And so this is what you can do when you're in cabinet. So I found out who the minister was. I looked at his social media feed and I saw that he was advocating to get this done. So I arranged a call with him and he said oh, eleanor, the premier's really dragging his feet. He doesn't want to do it. And I said why? Ontario's got it? We have the biggest roads, the busiest roads in the country. If we can do it, you can do it. And then I gave him a bunch of information. Then I said CAA, by the way, one of our biggest allies on everything we do, but certainly on road safety, things like this, and he's like CAA. I never even thought of them and I said boom, you should reach out to them. So voila, caa got involved in Atlanta, canada, they passed the law.
Speaker 2:And the reason I share that story, peter, is once you can show that somebody else who's done it. So he said I talked to him after. He said I told the premier what you said and I said, oh good, goodness me, I hope that's okay, but you know, pointing out to him that the place with the busiest roads in the country was able to do it. You just have to have that. Yes, we can. Attitude Peter.
Speaker 1:What's your opinion of automated safety enforcement red light cameras, speed cameras and so on? They would be, as I see it, immensely effective, but there's obviously a political issue there. Have you ever taken that one on?
Speaker 2:I've never taken that one on. I know it's being debated in in toronto right now um people are going around and destroying.
Speaker 2:There's a message it's really quite distressing. Um, yeah, uh-huh. Um. Well, no one likes to be caught, um, and punished. Um, uh. I remember when, uh, I was talking to the commissioner of the OPP about doing Greg's law and I said why is it that penalties? Money works. What is it that changes people's behavior? Because, peter, when you do cycling work like we do, it's about behavior change. Getting people to think differently about cities, getting people to plan differently, put in infrastructure, thinking about their city to plan differently, put in infrastructure, thinking about their city modal mix differently and changing people's behavior in the context of law enforcement means short chart penalties sometimes that say to people you broke the law and now you're going to pay the consequences for that because we live in a lawful society. So I don't personally have an issue with speed enforcement that reminds people about how they need to drive or should drive. Anything that reminds people to stay safe on the road is, I think, a really good idea. I don't know, I don't know if that answers your question.
Speaker 1:It's one of those things where I think there may be a perception that the public is against it, and you mentioned some of those cameras got smashed. I'm reminded of the recent referendum I believe it was in Paris about whether they should allow e-scooters, and it was defeated. So they don't have e-scooters, but 5% of the people voted, and just one angry person smashing a camera may give the impression that everybody's against this, but you do the polling and your polling data would probably show. As ours shows, for example, on a 30-kilometer speed limit in residential areas, 75% of the people across the province think that's a great idea in their neighborhood, but the politicians won't touch it.
Speaker 2:We did it when we were in government. We did it.
Speaker 1:As a default across the province. And was there pushback? It's allowed in BC, but the it as a default across the province. And was there pushback? It's allowed in BC, but the municipalities have to each take it on.
Speaker 2:And we're advocating it should just be blanket across the province. Yeah, that one's so sensible to me. I remember Jeanette Sadek-Khan, the former commissioner of transportation in the city of New York under Bloomberg, and she now works for Bloomberg at a city's Institute. But, um, she oversaw, uh, under his direction, the the greatest transformation in New York city from a cycling point point of view. Um, probably ever. Um, really, uh, if, if you go to New York and I do have been a little while I'm not going to the States much these days, but one of my best friends works at the United Nations in New York, so I'm and I cycle when I'm there and I'm quite safe and comfortable.
Speaker 2:It's remarkable what she did closed down Times Square to vehicles. Yeah, there's always going to be pushback. Remember before I said you know people don't like change. People don't like change, peter, you know this right. And we're asking people to change and we're asking them to share the road, and we're asking them to be kind and we're asking them to give up space, and we're asking them to give in to people's instinct to improve the planet, their personal health, mitigate congestion and lower their own personal costs, which is everything that cycling does. And why is any of that bad? Back to Jeanette, what she told me about how they succeeded in New York was, she said I just made it about congestion and safety. So to your point about how municipalities push back, if you start to talk about children in community safety zones, which is what we did, who can be against saving children's lives?
Speaker 1:yeah, exactly who.
Speaker 2:Who can be against that? Right it just and, and you know when, when you're in Europe, in the UK, where I spent some time there after this global cycling conference in Gdansk recently, just last week I came home on Sunday and a bunch of neighborhoods that I was in I spent some time with friends cycling. I did a bike bus with a group of women that I met in Gdansk, in Glasgow, and they had these signs all over the neighborhood. 20 is plenty. 20 is plenty. Miles an hour, by the way, because they do miles in the UK, but it was interesting 20 is plenty. I thought that's so perfect, right? I mean, why do we need to go quickly, peter? Why can't we slow down in our neighborhoods and look after each other and our neighbors and our friends? Slow down.
Speaker 1:Well, politicians will frequently think of the frustrated motorists just wanting to get somewhere faster. But when you ask the question from the point of view of your neighborhood, do you think cars should go slower in your neighborhood?
Speaker 2:Overwhelmingly people say yes, Eleanor, we got to wrap this up, but before we go, you were in Gdansk. You talked to the European Cyclist Federation, was that it? Yeah, so the ECF has a global cycling conference. It was in Vancouver, by the way, in 2010. It's been in Canada twice. 1992 could have been 2012.
Speaker 2:Sorry, peter, I'm old now I forget stuff, but they have the Velocity Cycling Conference every year and it brings it's a global conference. About 2000 people attend. Uh, I've been going since 2009. Uh, I've been most years. When I was elected I didn't go, but um, I, uh, and, and, and it and. It brings together cycling advocates, professionals, city leaders, european. It's a very gravitas conference and I was asked to speak on a panel with colleagues from Paris, brussels, poland, the United States about bike clash. So a bit of what we're talking about now how there is pushback against, pushback against uh, cycling, um, and how we deal with that and how we manage that. So that was the conversation, uh, that we had. So it was. It was interesting and great for me to see longtime friends that I only see once a year, once every couple of years, my Dutch and Danish friends, for example. So great, great to be in that venue and lots of things that I've learned. It's always really inspiring to be there, peter.
Speaker 1:Well, speaking of conferences, the BC Cycling Coalition and the Planning Institute of BC are doing a regional cycling conference in Kimberley in September 10th to the 12th and I keep throwing that out there in these podcasts to encourage people to attend, and I'll talk to you later about that, because maybe we can get you there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you want me to come, maybe I'll look at my calendar and see what I can do. I love coming to BC.
Speaker 1:But I wanted to ask you one more thing about conflict that I'm now hearing about between, and I'm thinking about Europe and all the different modes of travel, the e-scooters and the faster, bigger, better e-bikes.
Speaker 1:It's now the line between non-motorized and motorized transportation starting to get very blurry. And there's we're hearing pushback again. I don't know if it's just people who are finding another reason to be angry at cyclists or actual. I think it's more as much from legitimate cyclists, for, for example, a friend of mine I heard who got knocked off her bike by passing e-bike going too fast. What are your thoughts about congestion in the bike lanes and these new technologies? Are they legitimate partners or do we have to somehow find a new place for them?
Speaker 2:new place for them. I'm going to a session on e-bike regulation in Ontario in a couple of weeks that the provincial government is putting on. I think, peter, it's a couple of things. I think this is fairly straightforward and it feels complicated because people don't know what to do, but we regulate cars from a speed point of view. We don't let people just go any speed they want. We have controlled zones and we control people's speeds and, you know, depending on where they are, I think it's probably a good idea to, because people make bad choices, peter, whether they're behind the wheel, and sometimes you and I have seen this, we've all seen it.
Speaker 2:I've done so many media interviews and I've never defended people who are careless or unsafe, because we are human beings first and cyclists and motorists second, and that human beingness means that we make silly decisions sometimes, and silly choices when they impact other people, then we have to pay the price for that. Sadly, however, there's laws that prevent and mitigate our behavior. So if there's an opportunity to look at people's choices when they're in the bike lane and if their behavior is causing those places to be unsafe, then we should have a conversation about how we put limits on people's speed If they can't behave responsibly.
Speaker 1:Makes sense to me.
Speaker 2:We may have to do that. We do it with cars, peter, and, as I said earlier, in Ontario anyway, 87% of people are motorists, and cyclists too, and so I think this is just like any other group of road user. If people are not behaving well, then we have to say to them you know this is a privilege, not a right, and you need to govern yourself well and to ensure that you do, to protect you and the people around you, we're going to put limits on your speed and then do enforcement, peter.
Speaker 1:Wow, it's so great hearing your story, and I hesitate to say this, but I think that part of your story is your strength as a person and your connections and your energy, and if there were one of you in every province in Canada, we'd be well on our way. But failing that, we'll see you as an example of what can be done from a personal level. And, of course, your strength is in mobilizing other people to do the work together and bringing all these people together. What a great story.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you. Happy to chat anytime.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to Bike Sense, an original podcast from the BC Cycling Coalition. Bike Sense, an original podcast from the BC Cycling Coalition. If you like the podcast, we'd be grateful if you could leave us a rating. On whatever platform you use, you can also subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. If you have comments or suggestions for future episodes, email me at peterladner at bccyclingca. You can help us amplify BC Cycling Coalition's voice. You