Bike Sense

Turning rails into trails: Re-imagining Vancouver Island's 289-km rail corridor

• The BC Cycling Coalition • Season 3 • Episode 5

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Is it all over for trains on the abandoned E&N Rail line stretching 289 kilometres along Vancouver Island?

Alastair Craighead, Chair of Friends of Rails to Trails Vancouver Island, thinks so, and is one of many people working with regional districts, municipalities, businesses and land-owning First Nations to convert these derelict tracks into a world-class trail network.

Peter Ladner talks with him about the millions of dollars already invested in planning this cycle route, and what has to happen to complete it.

Check out Friends of Rails to Trains Vancouver Island HERE and be sure to watch their delightful video.

For another view on the corridor's future, see https://www.islandrail.ca/.


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The Bike Sense podcast with Peter Ladner is produced by the BC Cycling Coalition – your voice for safer and more accessible cycling and active transportation in British Columbia.

Got feedback or ideas for future episodes? Please drop us an email at admin@bccycling.ca.

Membership in the BCCC is now FREE! The future of this podcast depends on people like you becoming members at BCCycling.ca.


Speaker 1:

Welcome to Bike Sense, the BC Cycling Coalition's podcast, where we talk about all things related to active transportation advocacy in BC. I'm your host, peter Ladner, chair of the Board of the BC Cycling Coalition. I hope you enjoy the show. All over BC, cyclists and tourism promoters are justifiably excited about converting abandoned rails to trails, and they have been doing this for decades. There have been some notable successes the Kettle Valley Railway, even the Arbutus Greenway in Vancouver. But maybe the biggest dream is the 289-kilometer E&N Rail line on Vancouver Island, stretching from Courtney to Victoria. My guest today is one of the champions of this conversion of that rail line into trails Alistair Craighead. He's the chair of the Friends of this conversion of that rail line into trails, alistair Craighead. He's the chair of the Friends of Rail Trail Vancouver Island. Welcome, alistair.

Speaker 2:

Good afternoon, Peter. It's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1:

Alistair, you're based in Victoria and you have some history already with converting rails to trails in Victoria. How did you get involved in that and tell us what that was about?

Speaker 2:

We got involved in about 1987. We decided that another unused railway that runs from Victoria through to Sooke and also out to Saanich. We saw the real potential for doing something there that would connect all of the communities as the railway once did, something there that would connect all of the communities as the railway once did. And so what we did? To begin with, we started the Greater Victoria Cycling Coalition and the first project of the Cycling Coalition was to get that conversion started.

Speaker 1:

And it's been a remarkable success. As far as I can tell, and I guess what happened there has whetted your appetite for this much bigger project, and I wonder if you could just describe in your dreams if all your dreams came true, what would it look like?

Speaker 2:

Well, in actual fact, I'd say the Galloping Goose really is a model, because it's an active transportation corridor that's used for many things. It's used for people commuting, it's used for recreation, it's used for many things. It's used for people commuting, it's used for recreation, it's used for anybody who wants to get out and get away from cars, really. So to see that extended up island, and it would be an extension, because if we extend that up island, that will connect not just the island but through ferries, it would provide a circle route which would go all the way around. So you'd come in at Swarch Bay, you'd go on the Galloping Goose, you'd go from the Galloping Goose to the Island Corridor Trail, you'd go up there to Comox, from Comox across to Powell River, down through the Sunshine Coast and back into Vancouver. So that, in fact, is the real dream. It could be part of a whole circle route. That would be absolutely amazing for tourism, nothing like anywhere else.

Speaker 1:

Now you're talking about tourism and our new board member, colleen MacDonald, who wrote let's Go Biking, has made a comparison between BC and New Zealand in about comparable population sizes and they have something like a $1 billion plus cycle tourism industry. Has there been tourism interest in the Galloping Goose Trail? Do you have any data that people coming to Victoria to do that trail?

Speaker 2:

Well, we're interested in two ways. From tourism there's an organization on the island called 4VI or 4TVI. Now that's the old tourism Vancouver Island organization that was started to promote tourism. But the other element is we have also in our feasibility study some numbers there. We're talking in the millions here about how much economic impact it would have. Probably something like 100 million a year it would build to that. And that's not just an estimate. That's looking at another trail in the? U, the US, which is very similar in demographics and in fact on that trail it's not just an economic impact, it's a creator of business. On the Gap Trail about 40% of the businesses on that corridor corridor's called the Great Allegheny Passage. 40% of the businesses on that corridor owe their existence to that trail. So that's the kind of impact it can have.

Speaker 1:

Okay, let's get into it. This project has been underway, or talked about, for many years, but you're not the only organization that has designs on this rail corridor. On this rail corridor, the Island Corridor Foundation seems to be promoting more of a mixed use of rail perhaps a little bit of freight, perhaps some commuting on the tracks, and you're saying that you think it should be no tracks, all biking and hiking. How are you?

Speaker 2:

reconciling those two Biking, hiking and active transportation generally. It's not so much a reconciliation, it's actually an either, or there is actually trail already developed in the capital region beside the rails. The rails in the capital region are not used and they won't be used. There's a study showing that that's not where LRT will eventually go in the capital city. It will go on the corridor where the highway is, so it won't be used. There's a study showing that that's not where LRT will eventually go in the capital city. It will go on the corridor where the highway is, so it won't be used.

Speaker 2:

Anyway, there was a lot of money spent $2 million a kilometer to start the last kilometer built beside the rails $3.4 million for that kilometer. That's clearly not feasible to do that all the way up island not feasible to do that all the way up island. On the other hand, we know there's no funding for rail. We have a good relationship with the ICS. We're quite cordial in our relationship. We just disagree in what the future is, and part of the reason for that is the ICF has in their purposes that a charitable organisation is to support rail. So their purposes have to be changed in order to get it to happen. Five First Nations tried to do that a couple of years ago and they ended up leaving the ICF because the ICF wouldn't change. So that motion is still there on the books, it just hasn't been dealt with.

Speaker 1:

Just to be clear, ICF is the Island Corridor Foundation.

Speaker 2:

Island Corridor Foundation. It's a federal charitable organization.

Speaker 1:

Now this route would have to go through many jurisdictions. You've got 13 municipalities, five regional districts and anywhere from several to 14 First Nations, depending on land claims. I guess Now in my earlier discussion with you you said getting the agreement of the First Nations is critical to this path going through. Can you elaborate a little bit on that and what's happened in that regard so far?

Speaker 2:

Well, the corridor actually runs through First Nations reserves. The original corridor. The land was basically taken away from the First Nations reserves. The original corridor the land was basically taken away from the First Nations. So, to cut a long story short again, they went to court. They got their land back. One of them has actually lifted the rails from the corridor through their First Nation reserve and put a trail in place. So that's kind of the direction we see most of the First Nations that are actually on the corridor going.

Speaker 2:

There's a number of other First Nations that may not be so keen. But going back to the whole, reasoning behind doing an alternative is that rail is simply not viable. I'd love to be able to step on a train in Victoria and go to Comox. Nothing, I'd like better. It's not going to happen.

Speaker 2:

Federal and provincial government have made it very clear over the past 10, 15 years that there's no funding for rail and I know that the ICF was told that again very, very recently. There's no money coming for rail, so the corridor is a default solution. It's likely to happen sooner or later. One thing everybody agrees on, including the ICF and us and this is one of the reasons we're able to talk is that the corridor is a very valuable transportation asset. It would be a shame to see it go. So when everybody's agreed on that and we know that rail is not viable, we're the default solution. So it gives us a little optimism. It may take a while. Galloping Goose took about 15 years to get built out and you know all the regional districts. Yes, there's five, but the Capital Regional District is the manager for the Galloping Goose Trail. They lease it from the provincial government. I've absolutely no doubt that that model would work for the whole island. It's very well managed by the regional districts a good management model.

Speaker 1:

And it's not for lack of study that this project hasn't advanced. I see that the provincial government, the Ministry of Transportation now Transportation and Transit gave $600,000 to each of the jurisdictions at First Nations along the route to do consultant studies and so on. So there must be. What was the result of all those studies? Did that bring you any closer to agreement?

Speaker 2:

I don't know how quiet to put this. It's a little bit of a political football, because a decision has to be made and the whole idea that the government would do this study came from a court a potential court decision that was going to give the land back to the First Nations and basically say that's the end of rail in the corridor if you don't put the money up right away to do it. So the government knows it's a waste of time to try and put money into rail, so they don't want to put the money there, so they start the project. It's been renewed three times. It started off as 18 months. We're over two years now and it's got another six months to run. So we're not too sure.

Speaker 2:

That's necessarily where the answer is going to come from. But there is to some extent a deferment by the regions to the First Nations. There's one First Nation, that's Nenonoas, north of Nanaimo, who are doing a study off the whole corridor using the funding that you mentioned earlier, peter, and we're very optimistic that that will be the best of the studies that will be done. We've seen one completed and you know, one of the first things the study says is we're not going to make a decision on what we think would be best for the corridor. Well, enough said.

Speaker 1:

So this is 289 kilometers and I know there are offshoots to Port Alberni and Lake Cowichan that are all part of the plan but, as you said, it was 15 years just to get the galloping goose going. Clearly it's not all going to happen overnight. Are there some sections that would work short of the whole thing? That would be incremental improvements that are reasonably doable early on, given that your studies show that the cost of this is around $600,000 per kilometer.

Speaker 2:

That's right. That cost is about the same as the North Okanagan Trail. It was started by a First Nation who got a $12 million Splats and First Nation. They got a grant from the Federal Active Transportation Fund. Comox is probably the least of a political football, partly because the rails have already been lifted there by a First Nation that's just known as First Nation. So the rails are up there for two kilometers. You're not going to build a railway somewhere else to make up the two kilometers. So we're kind of optimistic. And the other thing is that the Trans-Canada Trail has given us a letter of support for that section. They're supporting that, that section go to trail and they've got a fair bit of influence.

Speaker 1:

So that would become part of the Trans-Canada Trail.

Speaker 2:

That would become part of the Trans-Canada Trail Now the Trans-Canada Trail south of that on the island, a large part of it's on an old logging road called the Niagara Main. It is not a pleasant bike ride. It's better than nothing. But if we see that Nanaimo section go to the Trans-Canada Trail, I think that would probably drive the process further south as well. That's only one scenario, but that's a possibility.

Speaker 1:

Well, if the Nanaimo to Comox one were done, you would have another circle route to Powell River, to Comox, nanaimo to Horseshoe Bay. Indeed, you would, yes, you would have another circle route to Powell River, to Comox, nanaimo to Horseshoe Bay.

Speaker 2:

Indeed, you would. Yes, you're absolutely right, that would be a shorter circle, but that potential is there all the time too, and it's one of the keys. I mean, we're seeing car-free ferries, if you like to call them that, beginning to operate out of Nanaimo and are very successful, so we may see more of that from other parts of the island too. It's getting very, very expensive to go to Vancouver in a car from the island, so I think the potential for these ferries that would carry passengers and bikes as well is very good.

Speaker 1:

Well, I know just a side note on that that the BC Cycling Coalition and Hub Cycling are both working with and pushing the ferries to be more cycle friendly. Yes, so who else is involved? We've mentioned governments and your organization, but are there businesses like Tourism Victoria I don't even know if there is such a thing or Destination BC, or the Ministry of Tourism? Are there others who share your excitement about the tourism potential, who are willing to support it both politically and financially?

Speaker 2:

Yes, indeed, the organization that I mentioned earlier. They call themselves 4VI and they were originally called Tourism Vancouver Island, but the 4 stands for the four sustainabilityples that they use for future tourism. So they're also working quite closely with First Nations and they're very clearly in support of our trail. They're very careful politically about how they say that, but we know them well and we know that we've got their support.

Speaker 1:

Well, without trying to make generalizations about First Nations or double guess what they're thinking and doing, can you give us any indications of? Is there a consensus among the First Nations about how this corridor, what we?

Speaker 2:

call the island corridor. That's the coast corridor. There's the coast corridor which is 225 kilometres and then, as you mentioned, there's a spur off to Porto Berni. But off those five First Nations the Snaanaanaas has their land back, the Halaal is another First Nation who they want their land back, and the Cowichan First Nations, which is one of the biggest First Nations groups on the island, they also want their land back. So the corridor is going to be broken in three places.

Speaker 2:

And we've actually spoken to two of the other First Nations. I mentioned perhaps the Cowichan first. We spoke to them about two years ago and they did not want a trail on the corridor through their reserve, where it was located, but they'd be quite happy to reroute a trail either around the outside of the reserve or through a different part of that reserve. So we believe they're somewhat amenable. Uh, the last time we spoke to them was that we made a presentation. They said well, we're definitely not saying yes, but we're not saying no either. So they're obviously watching to see how the winds go and I think the Sinaloa study may be the one that actually drives it for First Nations.

Speaker 2:

But that's the First Nations on the corridor and they're the ones that are most important, two other First Nations in Victoria. The Esquimalt First Nation is one of them. The trail in the capital region is already built around their reserve. Well, it kind of shows that it can be done. So it's already there. So we believe First Nations and many other parts of Canada really see benefit coming because it allows them to have people exposed to their culture. And in fact, the Splatsen First Nation, who are responsible for the North Okanagan Trail. They saw the potential for them as a First Nation to have a trail like that going through their traditional lands, their traditional territory. They saw it as a connector for their traditional territory. We've spoken to them about that and we thought that was very interesting that they saw that potential as a benefit for the First Nation.

Speaker 1:

Well, I remember when greenways were being introduced in Vancouver and there were people alongside the route saying, well, we don't want these cyclists, you know, crowding our neighborhood. But it was quickly pointed out that people on bicycles are about the least intrusive visitors you can ask for. They can't. They're not going to break into your house and steal your TV and take it home on their bicycle. They're just and they don't make any noise, they don't make any pollution. They may stop and buy a meal or an ice cream cone or stay somewhere. So it does, on the surface, sound like a big benefit for any territory that's got this trail.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. We ran into that with the Galloping Goose. There was a girls' school actually on the route and they were very expressive of their concerns about what might happen to the girls with all the riffraff from town coming out past their school. But it quite quickly calmed down and you know, right now I mean practically every politician that was elected eventually was a person that started the galloping goose. You know, everybody claimed it was their own and that's where we want to get. We want to disappear and give it to other people, let them think they did this. It's one of the things that might work politically. Do we want to disappear and give it to other people? Let them think they did this? It's one of the things that might work politically.

Speaker 1:

Are the lessons from the Galloping Goose transferable to the rest of the route? Well, some of them are Because it's got a higher built-up density and there would be more commuter and utilitarian trips rather than tourist trips.

Speaker 2:

But some of that route goes through some pretty uninhabited territory. Well, not really I don't want to contradict you, but it goes through some beautiful territory and it is unspoiled. But there's about almost 40 small settlements on that corridor on the coast corridor, and the average distance between them is less than 10 kilometers. So that allows for a lot of potential for local people to use this corridor for active transportation. You've got an electric bike. You can get to a store in five kilometers. Why are you going to jump in your car on a beautiful day? So there's potential there. Anyway, you look at it really.

Speaker 1:

Well, I did read that 10% of the population of vancouver island lives within sorry 80 of the population is within 10, 5 to 10 kilometers of this rail.

Speaker 2:

So it is a central spine it is a central spine, a connector spine and, as I say, the demographics are very, very similar to the gap trail in pennsylvania, which is about the same demographics with people close to the corridor, and it's an amazing success.

Speaker 1:

So what's next? What are your next steps? What are you waiting for? What's the best chance of a breakthrough?

Speaker 2:

Well, yeah, you can call this the tipping point if you like, but there's really more than one tipping point. One of the tipping points that was of a lot of concern to people was well, is rail coming back? Well, I think we're long past that. You'll still find lots of people say they want to. You know, you'll get thousands of people on a petition saying we'd love to have rail I'd be one of them, but there's no rail coming by.

Speaker 1:

the economics just doesn't work just hold that thought for a second. The couch and valley regional district did a survey and 79 percent of people say use it for passenger rail, 49 percent said hiking and biking and 42 percent said freight rail. And the island uh corridor foundation, which, as you said, has built into its purposes that they have to do something about rail, is championing this high rail thing where you kind of get a bus, that's, that's when you you can have the wheels and then it pops up. Some things pop down on it, like those, those four, those pickup trucks that go on the rail tracks and it can be a little commuter through a section and they have found, apparently, that that's operating somewhere around Lillooet. They think that might be useful for a certain section of this trail. Is that a non-starter in your view?

Speaker 2:

I think the one that operates in Lillooet is operating as a kind of school bus and it might carry about 100 people a day. The cost of reestablishing this corridor? Remember it's closed for safety reasons. The corridor is broke. As far as rail is concerned, the existing infrastructure is no good. So are you going to spend several hundred million dollars to run a school bus? I don't think so.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So I was asking about your next breakthrough and you were just saying it won't be rail. So then what?

Speaker 2:

Well, we're quite confident that we've passed that kind of tipping point, that rail is coming back, but we've got to get to the point where. How does this happen? There's many ways it could happen. It can happen through one regional district, it can happen through one First Nation.

Speaker 2:

The way the Galloping Goose really took off was a politician, a minister of the Crown, andrew Pedder. You may know his name, I think he was the chair of Simon Fraser. Latterly Anyway, we spoke to him, the president of Simon Fraser, president a big part. He at that time was responsible for an organization called the Capital Commission, which is now gone, unfortunately, and he picked this up and he ran with it. And another politician whose name you probably remember, mose Hota. He joined in and that was really where the thing took off. Someone at some level who is a decision maker has to champion this at some point. We really don't have anybody identified yet, but we think that as the pressure mounts from business, from tourism, that it's likely somebody will have the vision to see this, because when you actually look at this on paper and we look at the studies that have been done, you look at how successful the trails have been. You mentioned New Zealand. That's right in our feasibility study. I mean, I hate to use the term no-brainer, but it kind of is.

Speaker 1:

Well, we are going to be championing this at our regional summit in Kimberley September 10th to the 12th. Colleen MacDonald will be there and try to bring people together and do these next steps, but it's interesting that we haven't yet seen any senior, influential politicians step out and try to own this and give it the leadership that it obviously needs.

Speaker 2:

Actually we did have one politician and I won't mention names, but one politician did a minister in the last government. She was very confident and very enthusiastic about it, but it was not something the government wanted to deal with at the time and I think that really is part of the problem. There's so many other issues at the moment that weren't there when we started the Galloping Goose, but I'm pretty confident at some point there is going to be an Andrew Pedder that will say this is a good news story. People love trails. We can make political capital out of this.

Speaker 1:

And do you think that it will be the economic tourism potential that will make the difference?

Speaker 2:

I don't think necessarily that is the only thing that would make the difference. The Galloping Goose is still not promoted for tourism. It does get some tourism, especially up at the West End where it goes through an amazing area called the Sooke Potholes. It's second to none.

Speaker 2:

It's a scenic place in the west coast of the island. But there's lots of reasons why people would support this. Tourism is just one. But active transportation is growing. It's right there in the provincial government policy, the South Island Transportation Study. Two priorities are public transit and active transportation. Federal government. They had the fund. We got money from that fund. So it's kind of like there's a lot of things just waiting to happen there. I must admit, I'm kind of hoping I make it to your active transportation event this year because I'm sure it's going to be a pretty interesting discussion.

Speaker 1:

Well, I hope so, and tell me more about your organization. I mean, you've been going for how long and how many people are involved with that and what does that take to keep it going.

Speaker 2:

I've been involved for five or six years years I think it was going for a few years before that but when I became involved we decided to actually become a provincial society and things took off. From then. It opened doors. We've seen the provincial transportation ministers two of them so far probably half a dozen times, but you really have to have the constituency to get this to happen and that's what we're really focused on building right now. We're focusing on Comox in the near future and we have a couple of business people up there involved with their organization, who are you know they've got some credibility when it goes to talk to the Chamber, when they go to talk to the Chamber of Commerce up there involved with their organization, who are you know they've got some credibility when it goes to talk to the chamber, when they go to talk to the chamber of commerce. And you know we've got everything from university professors to economists on our board, you know, really good board, solid board, all of whom are working board members.

Speaker 1:

That's fantastic and I want to give a plug to your video that you've done. You can tell people how to reach, I guess.

Speaker 2:

Fortvica is our website.

Speaker 1:

Fortvica.

Speaker 2:

And there's lots of information on there.

Speaker 1:

And you have there people like a councillor from Qualicum and a vineyard owner from the Couch and Valley, I think would love to see bikes coming by his place.

Speaker 2:

Well, the councillor for Qualicum is my favourite. I think he basically says everybody loves trains, but nobody wants to pay for them, so let's do a trail.

Speaker 1:

And so I guess your job now is to cultivate more people like that, who will speak out and solicit support from their region.

Speaker 2:

Yes, there are more and more all the time we do a newsletter. It's well over a thousand now in circulation. We've got about 300 members and membership's growing, so it's growing steadily.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you so much, because this is one of those things that I particularly like as a cycling advocate, because it crosses so many different constituencies and it's not just a few geek cyclists, it's communities and hotels and commuters and families getting to school and doing their work and just visitors coming to BC. I know that the head of the Island Corridor Foundation dreams of having people coming to the World Cup to be doing this or some part of this route, so that'll be a quick turnaround, but hey, let's dream big.

Speaker 2:

Well, with a trail, it's all ages and abilities.

Speaker 1:

Fantastic, yeah, around. But hey, let's, let's dream big. Well, with the trail, it's all ages and abilities. So fantastic, yeah. Well, we'll keep an eye on this, alistair, and maybe, uh, see you at our conference in kimberly in september. And I do hope so and, and hopefully the bc cycling coalition, can help you and other organizations like yours work on these projects and bring them to fruition. Thank you absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

We really appreciate that, peter. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

You've been listening to Bike Sense, an original podcast from the BC Cycling Coalition. If you like the podcast, we'd be grateful if you could leave us a rating. On whatever platform you use, you can also subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. We'd be grateful if you could leave us a rating. On whatever platform you use, you can also subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. If you have comments or suggestions for future episodes, email me at peterladner at bccyclingca. You can help us amplify BC Cycling Coalition's voice by simply becoming a free member at bccyclingca. Thank you.